Howard Marks of Oaktree Capital, at the Dubai International Financial Centre. His latest book, Mastering the Market Cycle, was released last month. Reem Mohammed/The National
Howard Marks of Oaktree Capital, at the Dubai International Financial Centre. His latest book, Mastering the Market Cycle, was released last month. Reem Mohammed/The National

Investor Howard Marks on how to gauge the market cycle



Howard Marks has helped build Oaktree Capital into one of the biggest alternative investors in the world, with around $122 billion of assets under management as of June. Once dubbed 'Wall Street's favourite guru", the American is also an author with his latest book, Mastering the Market Cycle, examining how to understand, track, and react to the ups and downs of market cycles, released last month. In an interview with The National in Dubai, he explains how to read market fluctuations so the odds stack in your favour, and why people should be adopting a cautious approach right now.

What are your top tips for investors?

The job of the professional investor is to control risk. It’s easy to make money – the challenge is to do it with risk under control. Risk is a function of where we stand in the cycle. When we’re low in the cycle, the risk is low; when we’re high in the cycle, the risk is high, and it’s harder to make money.

Everything an investor does to improve results falls under two headings. The first is asset selection, which is trying to hold more of the things that do better and less of the things that do worse. The second is cycle positioning, which is having more invested more aggressively, at the right time, and less invested, more defensively, when the times are not so right.

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How do you know when the market is overvalued?

The evidence comes in two forms. One is quantitative. We look at the PE ratio on stocks [price divided by earnings per share], the yield on bonds, the capitalisation ratio on real estate and transaction multiples on private equity, and so on.

Then there’s the qualitative, behavioural element. With experience, insight, training and emotional control, you can understand how events around you imply where we are. When we’re high in the cycle, it’s usually characterised by optimism, enthusiasm, greed, risk tolerance and credulousness. It makes the market a risky place. If there’s a lot of optimism baked in to securities prices and you buy then, you’re likely to pay a high price relative to the ‘intrinsic value’ and that makes it dangerous.

We want to buy at a low intrinsic value. So what causes that? Pessimism, fear, risk aversion, scepticism, recent bad performance, negative media stories –  those kind of things.

Given all of that, where are we now?

We are at an elevated part of the cycle in which there is considerable risk – meaning a lot of [stocks] are overpriced above their intrinsic value. It’s time to invest carefully. The market is characterised by optimism, faith in the future, and desire to make money rather than fear of losing money; this suggests there is some kind of hot air underneath the market, which could dissipate with negative consequences. Maybe the lending terms have been weak, or there are no covenants, which happens in heady times when banks are unworried or competing to provide financing.

That said, if we take the US stock market and leave out the Fangs (Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, and Google), most stocks are not terribly overpriced. The PE ratio on the average stock is a little above normal, but not grievous.

In some sectors of the credit market, however, where Oaktree operates, there is a strong desire to put money to work, demand outstrips supply, so prices are going up. It’s time for caution.

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Read more:

What next for your portfolio: growth, value or momentum investing?

Are these the warning signs of an approaching global recession?

Knowing when to sell a stock as key as knowing when to buy

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How do you exercise caution?

You can do this in three main ways. One is go to cash (exit your investments), which is extreme and I do not advocate that. If you hold cash you can’t lose money, but you also can’t make money.

Two, switch into conservative asset classes. Bonds are generally more secure than stocks, and the developed world is generally more secure than the developing world. Also, so-called ‘value investing’, such as gold stocks, which are valued for their present earnings and assets, is generally safer than ‘growth investing’, in stocks that are highly valued because they have a robust future in, say, 10 years.

Three, within an asset class, there are more aggressive and more defensive things you can do. Now is the time for defence. You can invest in bigger companies, which are generally safer, or companies in more stable fields like food, rather than risky fields like technology.

Some people are aggressive in nature and make a lot of money when the market booms; others are worriers and their strength is they protect their client when the market falls. Now is the time for the latter.

What macro-trends are driving this optimism?

Every year the economy does well and the market rises, people become more optimistic, because of the accumulation of good news. But in my country [the US], there has never been an economic recovery longer than 10 years. And we are 10 years since Lehman. So as things get better for longer, people get more excited, just when they should be turning cautious.

The good news is I don’t perceive euphoria. There has been an accumulation of sources of uncertainty - trade wars, Brexit, [political drama] in Italy, the rise of US populism, which would be bad for business, and military activities around the world.

However, because interest rates are so low, nobody wants to invest in cash or treasuries or money markets. So they are investing in risk markets anyway to get a decent return.

What are the key opportunities right now?

Investing smartly is about understanding the popularity of various assets. The way you make big money, relatively cheaply, is to buy something that is unpopular – which by definition means cheap – and it goes from unpopular to popular. In the last six months, this was emerging markets. While the US stock market was chugging ahead, EM markets were declining.

To clarify, we don’t buy things just because they’re cheap, but when we see something that’s fallen in price that’s a good starting point for an investigation. In most walks of life, people would rather buy at 50 per cent than 100 per cent. But in the stock market, people like to buy at 100 not 50, and if it falls they say something is wrong. So wise investing calls for scepticism - and contrary behaviour.

COMPANY PROFILE
Name: Kumulus Water
 
Started: 2021
 
Founders: Iheb Triki and Mohamed Ali Abid
 
Based: Tunisia 
 
Sector: Water technology 
 
Number of staff: 22 
 
Investment raised: $4 million 
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MATCH INFO

Champions League quarter-final, first leg

Ajax v Juventus, Wednesday, 11pm (UAE)

Match on BeIN Sports

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DMZ facts
  • The DMZ was created as a buffer after the 1950-53 Korean War.
  • It runs 248 kilometers across the Korean Peninsula and is 4km wide.
  • The zone is jointly overseen by the US-led United Nations Command and North Korea.
  • It is littered with an estimated 2 million mines, tank traps, razor wire fences and guard posts.
  • Donald Trump and Kim Jong-Un met at a building in Panmunjom, where an armistice was signed to stop the Korean War.
  • Panmunjom is 52km north of the Korean capital Seoul and 147km south of Pyongyang, North Korea’s capital.
  • Former US president Bill Clinton visited Panmunjom in 1993, while Ronald Reagan visited the DMZ in 1983, George W. Bush in 2002 and Barack Obama visited a nearby military camp in 2012. 
  • Mr Trump planned to visit in November 2017, but heavy fog that prevented his helicopter from landing.
SHALASH%20THE%20IRAQI
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At a glance

Global events: Much of the UK’s economic woes were blamed on “increased global uncertainty”, which can be interpreted as the economic impact of the Ukraine war and the uncertainty over Donald Trump’s tariffs.

 

Growth forecasts: Cut for 2025 from 2 per cent to 1 per cent. The OBR watchdog also estimated inflation will average 3.2 per cent this year

 

Welfare: Universal credit health element cut by 50 per cent and frozen for new claimants, building on cuts to the disability and incapacity bill set out earlier this month

 

Spending cuts: Overall day-to day-spending across government cut by £6.1bn in 2029-30 

 

Tax evasion: Steps to crack down on tax evasion to raise “£6.5bn per year” for the public purse

 

Defence: New high-tech weaponry, upgrading HM Naval Base in Portsmouth

 

Housing: Housebuilding to reach its highest in 40 years, with planning reforms helping generate an extra £3.4bn for public finances

Skewed figures

In the village of Mevagissey in southwest England the housing stock has doubled in the last century while the number of residents is half the historic high. The village's Neighbourhood Development Plan states that 26% of homes are holiday retreats. Prices are high, averaging around £300,000, £50,000 more than the Cornish average of £250,000. The local average wage is £15,458. 

UAE currency: the story behind the money in your pockets
The story in numbers

18

This is how many recognised sects Lebanon is home to, along with about four million citizens

450,000

More than this many Palestinian refugees are registered with UNRWA in Lebanon, with about 45 per cent of them living in the country’s 12 refugee camps

1.5 million

There are just under 1 million Syrian refugees registered with the UN, although the government puts the figure upwards of 1.5m

73

The percentage of stateless people in Lebanon, who are not of Palestinian origin, born to a Lebanese mother, according to a 2012-2013 study by human rights organisation Frontiers Ruwad Association

18,000

The number of marriages recorded between Lebanese women and foreigners between the years 1995 and 2008, according to a 2009 study backed by the UN Development Programme

77,400

The number of people believed to be affected by the current nationality law, according to the 2009 UN study

4,926

This is how many Lebanese-Palestinian households there were in Lebanon in 2016, according to a census by the Lebanese-Palestinian dialogue committee